Sunday, November 28, 2010

End of Week 2 Update : A New Category of Players - the Premium Ones

Another insane week, and American Thanksgiving at the same time. Not sure if the in-laws were more stressful or the job, but hey - this kind of madness is clearly what we signed up for when we took on this task.

So in the spirit of keeping everyone up to date (ie sticking to our core mission of putting gamers first) - this week I am going to share our current thinking about how we will split "Basic" vs "Premium" accounts in APB: Reloaded.

When you turn a game into a Free2Play game, we generally expect that there will be several times more players playing the game than during its original run (mostly because people want to come check the game out, and since it's free the game tends to spread like wildfire once players are having a good time in the game). This is great for the gamers in general (more new players = more cannon-fodder for the experienced players), but clearly puts stress on all our systems (which in the end costs a lot of money to operate). The goal then becomes nudging the most hardcore players into "Premium" account status, in order to help pay the bills, while also letting people lease weapons and perform micro transactions for other items (usually various consumables).

At the same time, we really mean it when we say that we want free players to also enjoy the experience, while giving everyone great perks for becoming premium players. The perks usually involve things like making larger clans (like in WarRock), creating and controlling clans, or otherwise giving you various unique options and rewards (though they have to be meaningful in order to make sense).

For APB we have another great feature (and challenge) that we have to take into account as we design the new Basic vs Premium accounts - the customization system. The customization system can generate incredibly complex objects that at runtime get pushed to all the other players in a session, which means that the more complex the customization, the more stuff has to be pushed to everyone in a particular game.

Therefore one of the original RTW guys (now contracting with us) Johann, came up with what we think is a really elegant solution to the problem of getting flooded with complex content; instead of limiting what you can customize as a free player, you will be allowed to customize almost anything, but you will not be able to store (and share) complex customizations above a certain complexity level unless you are a Premium player AT THE TIME OF CUSTOMIZATION. This has several benefits, first it would limit the amount of content pushed to everyone else in the game from free players (which would reduce the amount of loading required), but it would also let you be Premium for just one month, create a lot of customizations that month, and then use those items later on (even if your Premium membership has lapsed).

There are other issues to consider (for example; we clearly do want people to still make content for the marketplace, and also to be able to buy things from the marketplace, without circumventing the limitations set by the Basic/Premium structure). The solution to that issue might be to make customized items have some automatic price correlation to the complexity of the item, but if you are a Premium player you get a discount when buying complex items (non-Premium players would pay more for complex items).

What does it all mean in practice; we presume that some incredibly talented artists will squeeze the living daylights out of the Basic complexity cap no matter what we set this at. In other words, whatever we set this cap at, we expect people to make some fantastic designs using every possible trick in the book, and then those who are really focused on their characters will clearly be very compelled to get Premium status (also for all the other perks we have not discussed yet). And the benefit to the whole game will be less complex characters in the game all around (unless you happen to be playing majority Premium players, which seems very unlikely).

Now I have to go back to eating Thanksgiving Left Overs, so this discussion (specifically what ELSE we will give to Premium accounts) will continue next week. But until then - very interested in hearing your opinions. I do expect there to be both intense Love and intense Anger at these types of suggestions, so keep in mind during the discussion that in the end the game has to actually make money, while being the best and most engaging experience possible for everyone.

 Looking forward to all your opinions!


  1. Can you get free complex designs as a player? or clan artists will have to create "light" versions of clan art?

    personally I mostly care about gameplay perks.

  2. Hello G1 as allways im up and following .. so to the newest blog text ..the hole thing sounds good that you guys get your money throw ppl that need to create lager guilds/clan and teams.. and that ppl are geting a lager storage space for the creation and after the 1 month premium go on free play style ..and if you need something new u just purcase a new 1 month premium .. so hopfully this will work so you guys get some money to kepp up the work on the game and keep it alive .. And as you wrote on the guild controll for premium members thats sounds like a possitiv idea from your side couse i think that the compition incresses when small team's are out there then lager ones , so hopfully we get more teams taht are fighting for the top possions then just 3-4 lager clans ..

  3. "involve things like making larger clans (like in WarRock), creating and controlling clans"

    Making clans should be free, however going over a limit of say 40 players then needs to become a premium clan.
    Needing the pay just to create a clan is a very bad idea, i also really do hope you have come up with some better stuff than that clan leader board RTW had that was such a big fail and made the Zerg clans even bigger. You need a way to ensure that small clans do not get matched in the same contest as clans with over 200 people, it will just make them give up and join the bigger clans, deleting all clan v clan activitys i REALLY do hope you are adding.

  4. Seriously, it looks OK for me
    As every project, idea will come after the released, it's hard to get an opinion based on a .txt ^^

    But yeah, you got to fix something clear at start, (maybe harder than what ou mean right now) to give more presents in the future...

    You can't be "so cool" at start to take back some kind of things after, peoples must scream ^^

    (Yeah I know my english really damn sux a lot >_<, excuse, I'm french, It's late at night, and... I'm drunk right now xD)

    Just to finish, you seems to talk about clothes for the premium/non premium

    But what about weapons, and CARS !!
    I guess we all hope that we'll got more vehicules (mean more type of cars, or bikes :p no copter, this last one can sounds cool, but it will really fuck the game play ^^...)

    so personaly, I'd just like to know, what about new cars, weapons, and THE GREAT question, can we find our old chars back !!!

    you mean before we can find back some kind of thing on our previous chars, ok, but WHAT ?
    I guess peeps don't give a fuck about theire clothes, but we all wanna keep our weapons and our cars who cost us 1 millions $ in game ^^

    Personaly, I got 2 chars (1 enforcer and 1 crim...)
    1 expensive car on both account
    and 3 expensive wepons on both account too...

    So something like 8 million $ in stuff....
    I hope you can understand our disapointment if we can't find back the things we spend some many time to get....

    Best regards, and thx a lot to take this project, you really rox (but I'd really love you if I find my main chars back xD)


  5. Hello, I would like to share some semi-detailed ideas that would make the game far beyond interesting but need the correct contact to share this with.

    If you could give me an email address so I can do so that would be great. I have extensive knowledge on this game and know what factors that could really bring it alive.

    My email address is (

    Thanks in advance.

  6. veryyyy happy to see the always successful model of free and premium accounts, i cant wait to be premium :D but i do have some things though

    creating clans should be for everyone, not just premium, even if it is more limited.

    nice idea with customizing, maybe have it that items over a certain complexity can only be traded while premium

    really looking forward to playing and testing ;) if u feel my thoughts going into ur head ;) lol :D

    anyway yes premium and free accounts are perfect :D good start guys.

  7. I'm glad to hear news like this.
    Really. All of us was scared about customization. Now its OK :)
    Good job! I hope you'll keep that way to make APB:R perfect game with microtranz. system.
    I translated this to russian and reposted in my blog.
    Я перевел этот пост и запостил у себя. Можете почитать, кто русский.
    Thx again! Waiting for next week and hoping to get in beta =)

  8. This is really nice! :) as i mentioned before PLEASE it would be lovely if you guys could to so that i can pay my premium experience by mobile, sending a sms to a number and then i get one month premium for a specific price! I WOULD LOVE THAT! you guys rocks:)

  9. Sending a SMS would be very useful if there is no sms, I did not spend my money on the game. The main thing that is not Premium players were not severely limited how in CrimeCraft.

  10. I love everything so far, i cannot wait for apb:r to come out, the customization idea is amazing, i would of never thought about doing it this way. I was never a big artist but it was pretty amazing what people could do. Also, make it so 32 bit os users dont get screwed into crappy graphics like b4, that upset alot of my friends. Keep us notified and get to work, i want my game back.

  11. Bravo!
    I like what I'm hearing about the customization. It seems everyone thought that customization was going to get nickel-and-dimed to death, but I'm glad to hear your system keeps it pretty open.
    My next question about customization would be this: what about the clothing / car unlocks? Will there be a way to unlock them in game through progrssion as before, along with a way to buy them through micro-tranactions?
    An idea... maybe expand the number of clothing pieces / cars you can store with a Premium account? That was something I always wished when playing the game before...more storage slots for cars and clothing.
    Looking forward to you guys setting up an "official" site and forums, and even more excited about the impending beta! :)


  12. Very nice to read you each week about the progress, can't wait anymore for get back ingame :)

  13. to complete my previous comments....

    If you got the old database, maybe you can sell us our previous chars ? :p

    If you see something wrong by givin us our powerfull weapons, maybe you can just unlock the four slotted weapons / cars, and create some level 4 perks....

    SO nvm the stuff we got, we must spend money to get the best...

    Can be cool no ?

  14. I like this; it doesn't limit the trade of content, nor does it remove the creation of content from free players. I think with a game like APB, free players can accept not having full access to every aspect of the game; the core game is entertaining enough, and as long as they can partake in a small sliver of it all, they can be satisfied.

    I, for one, will likely grab a Premium account just because I know it was worth it, and I'm sure the guys here--especially the guys contracting--can help to make APB even more worth the money.

    I'm really glad you guys are getting some of the old APB dev team on board; there are obviously guys there that had a hand in making the better aspects of the game, and this is a great example of that.

    One thing I'd like to mention though: while testing the latest and (maybe not) greatest in MMOs, I had a discussion with a friend I made in the Champions Online beta regarding the difficulty she experienced with APB, and her number one issue was with unlocking items. I echo that concern, as I distinctly recall buckling under the weight of unlocking the ammo resupply upgrade for vehicles, and to expedite the grueling process I resorted to using AutoHotKey to run a script that would fire a shot, reload, resupply, etc (exact details elude me now). Point is, I'd very much like--as a Premium user--to be have access to all, or most, clothing unlocks, easier access to upgrade unlocks, etc. Also, in order to avoid people from running scripts and such in order to gain these unlocks, the entire system ought to replaced by being made a reward for completing a contact or something similar. Perhaps allow the upgrades to only be purchasable by Premium users from an in-game store, and through the Cash Shop by free players?

    Anyways, thanks for doing another updated. I've actually been looking forward to read the next post since last week, and I'm anxious to read more next week.

  15. About the Marketplace, will there still be something like the RTW-points that we can make there and then use to pay for Premium?

  16. i like your honesty that the game will have to make money before anything else (or there will be no game - i know this but people seem to think that games are just made, we play them and everything is rosey in the garden)). At least you dont seem like a bullshiter. I had my doubts but i think i might have been wrong which I am very glad about. I hope you have some exceptional hardwear in place because i know APB is a server hogging bitch of a game but i dont need to tell you that. I would like to know if you are keeping servers in the EU? I know the servers were in germany before and i know why they were there. If they are going to be in the UE are they still going to be there?

  17. To get our chars back would be really great. Not for the weapons or cars they owned, but for the designed body and face. I designed my female char for about 3 hours to be perfect and I´m not sure I bring back her beautiness a second time :) (yes, I felt in love with "her" *lol*)

    About micro transactions...
    For me it will be great to be able to buy stuff, cause money is no matter for me (soon-instant-premium-member ;) ), but I hope this ability may not cause a loose of interest in the game for others who are able to spend maybe 200 bucks for a char (incl. highest char upgrades, highest weapon upgrades, highest car upgrades, ...) and then they don´t have to do anything but ruling the streets of san paro?! So I hope it stays, that you have to be a min. rank for some weapons (upgraded weapons) to use...
    I builded up two chars (1crim/1enforcer) to rank 280/290 and I think it´s essential to let the char "grow" and do not make it possible to buy a highlevel-char...

    For me there´s no way to loose interest in the game, cause APB is MY LIFE!!! ;)
    and I also can´t wait to come back "home" to San Paro.
    I already told my wife and daughter
    I will leave them in the first half of 2011, cause I have to get back "home" :-)))

    btw... if you want me to make it a better place to life, call me for closed beta ;) I would be proud to be a joint founder of the reloaded San Paro and I´m interestet in making the game more popular and successful!

    hang loose

  18. Very good idea about customization. I just want to know. Can we pay premium one time and gather second monthly pay from the game, from Marketplace like sell goods for G1 credits and buy another month?? like it was in old APB....
    P.S. good job. can't wait to play APBR

  19. You all miss something if premium account will have better weapons more maps or more slots on weapons its will be unbalance and soon or later people who play for free willl leave game.. they will not have any chance with peopel who pay for it. Any mission will be lose for free players... and win for people who pay for game. I pay every month for APB becous every1 got this same chance to win or lose missions have same items etc.... . If APB will be f2p and premium players will have access to better items than free players i will not play for sure becous always we will see premium players will win every missions... and it will be big unbalance for me and i will not have fun.

  20. I guess
    The three slot weapons and level 3 perks already exist so....
    Leave it to f2p player, and (try) give back the old stuff to pionneer players ^^ and yeah, put something like 4 slotted weapons and level 4 perks for premium members

    or put something like 10 or 15$ (real money) to buy a 4 slotted weapon, just like battlefield heroes weapons...

    You can rent it for some days with in game money, or buy it forever with real money
    Is there somemany peeps on this game who spend money on clothes and weapons, why not on the greatest game ever ? :D

    Another point, did we can pay for many month or year as premium with a discount ?
    15$/month looks pretty expensive...
    if you can goes to something like 80 or 100$/year maybe it will look better (if you sell 4 slotted weapons, cars and clothes with real money too ofc...)

    I guess battlefield heroes is a good example
    you can try something for a week or just for a day, and if you wanan keep it, you must spend real money...

    tell me if I'm wrong :)

  21. not weapons please.. don't do it with weapons! if all go to "unbalanced weapons" the missions are wined by real money and not by game play.
    This game will be like if u have money u won the missions. please no .

  22. I like the ideas set forth for premium and free players as far as customizations are concerned.

    A lot of people are bringing up weapons and are afraid of premium players (or purchased weapons) getting an "I-Win" weapon. If you've read the G1 forums, you'd know that that G1 is committed to making the game fair. They've stated that for any weapon that could be purchased, a similar weapon could be earned in game. I'm certain that our illustrious host will blog about this at some point, but suffice to say, I don't think you guys need to worry. G1 knows how to make a f2p game work, and it's not by making the free players leave. =D

  23. Hi guys, i have bin on the APB Clost Beta team, when apb started.

    i realy think you guys have somthing good here, the way whit the Premium and non premium players ar realy cool, i still think that making a clan shot be free to do, bu then make a minimum numbers of that non premium players clan, like 10 players, and to have more you need the Premium player account.
    you allsowe need to make new cars, and add some smuth cars you only can bay whit the Premium account, so you get people to get the month payment, i realy think this is a good ider guys, and realy look forwerd to play this game again, a truly Denish fan of this game., the old clan ;o)

    Beeni Out!..

  24. Well, there is already an existing game function that can be used for limiting items and customisation.

    -Items that have a high amount of customisation would be deemed as a "premium-only" so that only premium players can equip it.
    - Once equipped though, the item is bound to the player (untradeable, as it would be anyway) and can be used even when the player's premium access runs out.
    - If the player wants to trade the item, s/he can refine the item, which would make it premium-only and tradeable again.

    I really don't like the idea of controlling market prices, that should be all up to the players.

  25. 1. For those of you who keep asking if you can buy preium with ingame money, dont bet on it.

    2.I doubt that anyone with a highlvl character that dont have any million $ Items would be interested in buying back their toons( i wouldent).
    But it would suck very much to lose my toons anyways. And for the record we are MANY that do care about our customisations just as much as our high priced weapons.

    3. Speaking of balance, remove ltl weapons or make them accessable to criminals allso. After If real life criminals wanted a stungun and couldent buy it in a shop. They would properbly just buy it froma criminal that stole it. As that is part of what criminals do.

    4. Upgrade slot 4, Keep it of the streets! Or only make 4 slotted weapons useable in "Hardcore districts"(Districts for R250 and above, for example). It wouldent be fair to anyone but people that have all perks from start anyways.

    5. The clans, i think that a clan member cap that can be raised is a good idea. Except one thing, wouldent that be kind of unfair to the clan leaders? I meen do they have to pay that fee them selves? If so will there be any extra perks for leaders? After all the Leaders are the ones structuring the community. Should that not be rewarded rather then punished by hitting the leaders moneypoutch?

    5a. When will we know if we get to keep our Old Characters and Clans for that matter? And will retail get premium and for how long? Keep in mind some of us got the discount on subscribing 6 months to apb after buying retail, and didnt really get much for our money!(Like me, Doh!) Sure i will pay for Premium if i have to, but i dont think its to get a 1 month Preminum and thats it. If thats what your planning on Gamers First?

  26. But i dont think its FAIR* to get a 1 month Preminum and thats it. If thats what your planning on Gamers First?*

  27. Please do not make it so you have to be a Premium member to be able to make a clan because I think that's a very bad idea. Limiting the amount of members in a clan if the leader is not premium is fine but still allow people to form communities when they are free members.

  28. I hope this will work towards both sides benefit.

  29. GUNS GUNS GUNS. that should be your next big problem solve for APB : reloaded. when i was a player in the first release i used a sub-machine gun. i cant remember what it was called but i know that once 1 or 2 people upgraded it the exact same gun would be impossible to kill them with. Upgrading guns shouldn't be an insane killing machine.

  30. One of the things I really loved about APB was its symbol editor. Being someone who likes drawing alot, it was always fun to build up something complex using the basic shapes the editor gave me (like ladies in bikinis, which sold for a good bit of money :B).
    One thing that was a bit limiting for me was that I would almost always reach the 100 layer cap, and then I'd have to go back and really ration out my shapes just to make sure that I could squeeze in the important stuff for the symbol.
    It sounds like you guys are still thinking about what the layer limits will be for free players and premium players, but I do think that premium ones should be able to go over 100 layers. 100 was a pretty limiting cap for the kinds of symbols that needed to be built up alot, so I don't think it'd be too high a cap for free players either. Whatever you guys decide though, I will make do with whatever I get. There were a lot of great artists on APB who handled the cap very well. :D
    Thanks for sharing your plans for this stuff, I was always very impressed by the depth of customization in APB. :]

  31. Everything great.
    But still I'm afraid that micro transactions will make the game unfair.
    For example battlefild heroes. You can get few weak sniper rifles when you play for free and get many overpowered when you pay. This goes on with other items.
    Making clan for money is good idea. Ppl will pay for that and this won't change gameplay fun.
    In my opinion every weapon, car part of cloth should be able to earn just for progression in game.
    Micro transactions should included only things like: part of appearance customization of cars, clothes and weapons, clan functions, speed of progress ( like 2x) and maybe some perks like christamss tree during christmass and fireworks just before new years eve.

    It would be great if we could get something from our previous adventure with APB. Something like bonus on start and maybe appearance of our character.

    It would be great if I could join beta tests of APB:R.

  32. In these clans & servers I hope you include a cool thing that clans can do which is the VoIP system in the game it is very helpful and it's cool how you guys are gaining money & we get perks which the structure is alright for now.

  33. I think that F2P companies should move further away from the generic "Premium vs. Free" model where it almost becomes unbearable to play as a free member unless you like hundreds of hours of grinding to save a few buck. But rather, instead of giving outstanding benefits to those who pay, make everyone pay! Just without them actually losing any money.

    You implement an ingame advertisement model. One with billboards, such as Anarchy Online's, where short commercials are played in succession, or even a minute or two of good content in between to keep people interested in it. Discrete to the point where you don't feel like it's out of place in the atmosphere of the game, but noticeable like true adverts.

    THAT would be very profitable. It would attract more players than ever before due to its model that puts everyone on the same level.

  34. Sounds good enough for me. I'm looking forward to seeing the re-release already.

  35. I was glad to hear that gamersfirst had picked up APB as the project really has features most people playing overlooked or did not appreciate.

    Before getting to the topic I want to bring up the three main things that killed APB and ask how they are going to be handled. From first to last they were hack users, exploiters and player balance.

    Other than war rock there is not a similar game run by Gamersfirst so it is hard to see if you are handling this in other games. In other games run by your competitors the F2P games vary by operator from actually selling the hack for RLM to running anti-hack programs that do not allow you run anything except xfire and if you alt-enter you close the game but it works, I have yet to see a hack user on any of their FPS games. I did download and try war rock but between the lag on every server I checked and the OP weapons the premium players used I could not tell. What concerned me the most was that it seemed that the premium users were so OP that really there was no need to buy a hack, because buying a premium weapon gave them the equivalent.

    The second problem of exploiters is also related because what the exploiters did was use them to level and make money faster that was designed and because they had money and high levels were able to buy items that were not supposed to go into play for four to six months down the road. The problem to look out for is making sure that the premium players do not get an overly unfair advantage. For instance it was mentioned above that perhaps premium players could level faster than the F2P players but that could have disastrous results.

    Which brings us to player balance and the most notable problem with APB and a result of the items mentioned above. The first thing for everyone to keep in mind is that APB is not a MMO it is closer to a FPS and thus cannot and should not be treated as an MMO. Which means that anything that works for a moneystore in an MMO will not work for APB and will break the game. They are very different game styles and need to be handled differently especially at a F2P level. What you should never have but was often seen in APB was a group of players standing in the open killing everyone in sight with no regard for their own safety because that had used the two above mention items to purchase lvl3 upgrades which stacked and made them near demigods. In truth the only way to kill them was to run them over with a vehicle because no weapon you could buy could do enough DPS to overcome their lvl3 survivorman, mammoth and regen. Three upgrades that should never be allowed to mounted at the same time. But I imagine that these topics will come up in the future especially when you get into the beta so I am interested to see what you come up with. If you can access the old APB boards we discussed a lot of this there and one suggestion I had made there while I was posting on how APB was going to have to go to F2P to survive and what could work was giving every upgrade a positive and negative aspect. For example mammoth basically made you a tank so by mounting it you should not only get the benefit but have for example your speed reduced. A player putting on a heavy vest would naturally move slower than a player not wearing one. Now how this helps the F2P style is that it allows you to create a lot more upgrades which can be rented (when unlocked) and because all upgrades have both positive and negative attributes there are no demigods only styles of play that have distinct weakness and strength. If you make your avatar a golem as was the rule of the players mentioned above they would move and aim like one because they traded those for becoming near un-killable. The flipside would be a player built for speed an quick fire would take less damage to kill.

  36. But I'll save this for the your blog on balance. so on to the main topic.

    You have been given some good ideas from the old APB guys and having a premium to push your custom stuff is a good way to go. This allows the players that want to be go beyond the limit to pay for it and honestly anyone that needs to go beyond this is intending to sell their creations and thus should pay a tariff. as I said above you cannot use the standard MMO moneystore scheme but instead have to find one that works for FPS. I would suggest taking the app store approach. The players that will be making this type of content are doing so to make money, they should pay for the ability to profit from the game either from the premium status or from 30% of the sale.

    Just like every game type there are two types of players, the hard core gamers and the week end warriors but unlike the MMO versions of these APB's players are fighting each other. There is a big difference between someone buying a unique sword from a moneystore or another player as they will be using these against NPCs and the purchase helps them level. In a FPS buying a unique weapon is bad as they will be using that against PCs which unbalances the game, however buying a customized weapon changes the same weapon any player can get into a vanity item and that is where the moneystore will work. Players will by vanity items especially is they are one of a kind or limited run versions. You and I can both have a PIG but I would buy a golden PIG just to have one, those of you that have never played APB a PIG is the base LTL weapon and yes LTL need to stay in the game. I had 3 crims and 3 enfs and know that they were balanced perfectly and no crims don't need LTL, as a crim I kill I dont stun, thats not what crims do and if you are silly enough to let an enf get within 10m of you, which is the max range of the PIG, you deserve to be tazed... but I digress

    Selling Custom items could make a fair amount of money for the game if it's done right.
    Now onto clans,
    Clans are an important part of games but not as much in a FPS as they are in a MMO because they do not serve the same purpose. In APB clans are more of a status symbol than a raid requiting pool. The match making really doesn't take clans into consideration and realistically unless you have created a group of nothing but clan members the issue will never come up. You will never have an official clan war as the groups are four player max but can be expanded to 16 through the current matching system, so unless you have a small clan of four to 12 players you can never really get all of your clan into any battle. So to make clans appealing they need to have certain perks and by that I mean common uniforms, tags applied, and themes. Also under the current setup each player has a tagline so technically they can create a clan in name already.

    So what you do is make creating an official clan a sliding paid premium, for $4:99 a month your clan leader gets to design a uniform of tee shirt, Dockers and shoes which is automatically given to their members and they get their clan name in the leader boards. For $19.99 the clan leader gets to design leather jackets, leather pants, boots and arm tats... you get the picture. The players that are not that serious about or into clans can still run under a common tag giving them a semi clan status without any of the perks and those serious about clans will willingly pay for it.

  37. Hello again!I suggest to look on more and more global.Let's present that it as to real lives!You are a government, we are a population.You create terms, we pay taxes.You want to increase a population - so free2play certainly will good (but for some people possibly will comfortably pay a certain pay for a month for certain possibilities).Do advantageous to invite friends (for example gifts for invitations).Allow people to do business (for example to create clothes, take paying for this possibility, give to sell and take a tax...).It is possible to think of many variants, taking them from the real life!
    That about gameplay? Вalance must be observed certainly (not to kill from one shot, not alone against many...).For premium - possibility to execute the special missions (for example criminals - to break bank, enforcers to prevent...)you can create such missions and to send invitations on them for all with a mark that can take part only
    premium - and there will be interest to get premium.
    Enable people to live in a game by steep and interesting life and they will pay for it!

  38. @Zemtex, I know a LOT of people who want their toons back more because of their customizations, not their guns.

    Broken CCG aside, what makes LTL annoying for crims is the arrest dynamic where you have to sit there and lose precious time. Either remove the extra time, or give the crims a way to force enfs to lose time as well. LTL should stay in the game.

    If new players are being matched against experienced players with 4-slot weapons, that's a problem with matchmaking, not with 4 slot weapons. 4-Slot weapons should follow the existing trend of only being available once you meet certain criteria.

    I doubt it's unfair to the clan member to make them pay premium. They get all the other perks of premium as well. Further, nothing is stopping clannies from donating money to the leader. The reward to the leader is the clan itself.

    As far as old characters, G1 is trying to secure the database. IF they can secure it, then they can start looking in to what can be done. They said early on there are legal issues involved, as the user database contains rl user information, and there are laws governing the transfer of such data. (Remember when RTW promised they would never sell our personal data? What would you call this then?) We'll just have to wait and see.

    And finally, you don't think it's "fair" that you only get 1 month premium? Do you think G1 really owes us anything? It's RTW that took your money. G1 is bringing back APB, and making it free. If they give a nod to former owners in the form of 1 month premium, I'd take it and be happy. Honestly, I'm hoping for something more like a veteran decal we can put on cars and/or clothes, but thinking that G1 somehow owes us a certain amount of time is just wrong.

  39. @LeJohn,
    Not everybody who buys premium to make stuff will be doing so to sell it. I know plenty of people who just love to tinker and be original, but have no desire to see anybody else on the street who looks like them. Sure, they might sell a thing here or there, but not all of them are going to SELL SELL SELL.

    G1 has said that there will not be a purchasable game changer. Most weapons you can buy in the store will have a similar counterpart that you can grind for on the street. What you're buying is not having to wait for that weapon. Regular weapon restrictions will still be enforce for most purchased items. You won't see a TL30 running around with a 4 slot boomstick mowing down all the other unluckies who are matched against them. The few exceptions to this rule will be unique, very situational weapons. (I read this to be the rocket launcher, or other weapons that excel at certain circumstances, but will just get you killed everywhere else.)

    Playing 3Enfs and 3Crims is no different than playing 1Enf and 1Crim. You just split your time and spent more time at the lower levels. "Balanced perfectly" is not something that I have EVER heard anybody say. The skilled crim who just lost 5 consecutive rounds to the LTL using enfs not because the CCG is broken(which we all know it is), but because the time loss between each kill cost him those rounds might just tell you otherwise.

    As far as clans, you're forgetting about clan rankings. Recruiting the best and working together will bring your clan to the top of the rankings, and for some, that's what it's all about. When two top clans are neck and neck, what else would you call it but a clan war? They may not be fighting directly against each other, but I guarantee you that they think it's competitive, and they like it that way. The clan leader can already design and hand out uniforms if that's what they want, and some do, but some clans don't even want uniforms. And what gang of criminals has a uniform that is anything other than a jacket, a color(or colors), or a logo? No, "here's your official clan underwear" is not the answer in my opinion.

    Clans are their own reward, and paying to have a larger clan(in addition to all the other premium perks) is the best idea I've heard thus far.

  40. PLEASE make Tabula Rasa: Reloaded!

  41. @Lance

    Oddly the post was removed. I guess i had strayed too far with examples of what would consern the average player. In it I agreed with you that having the leader not the members of a clan pay is fair, the clan members can contribute but should not have to, unless thats part of the Clan membership reqs. I had also agreed that the CCG needs to be fixed.

    And yes clan ranking are important to those that actually care about it, which is why they would be more than willing to pay for it.

    Those that do not care about it, ie; the average player can still make a frends group under a commen name which is what the group I played with did. Having the ability to add the tag to your name and change it was a good thing that I would like to be kept in was what I was trying to say above.

    the post that remove had started with this and I am going to repeat it but nothing else from the post:

    "I was glad to hear that gamersfirst had picked up APB as the project really has features most people playing overlooked or did not appreciate, thank you for saving what has the possability to become a great game.

    As far as our Avatars, the only thing I want to have returned is their names. One fun part of the game was creating and customizing as well as working to unlock the content. it would be a lot fairer to the flood of new players F2P will bring and funner of a game to have us all restart on the same level.

  42. @LeJohn

    LTL im not talking about the short range tasers. I meen the 80M ones!

    Do you work for Gamers First? How can you come up with those prices?

  43. One of my posts was removed allso. What triggered this Tech? :s

  44. Please just cut out the part of the post, that you didnt want anyone to see. And repost it in my name please.

  45. I didn't hit anywhere near the top of the complexity meter until I started getting good at using the editors, so this should be fine for most people.

    I am not sure about the automatic pricing for complex designs though, it sounds good on paper, but I can see people abusing it, making a design overly complicated by adding shapes underneath.

    I am wondering how premium will be sorted, will everyone still unlock the same weapons, but free players may only get to use like one upgrade slot unless they are premium (even if they were using a 3 slotted weapon, only one slot may have effect). I think that would be best. The lease could still work, and provide 3 slotted temporary weapons without the upgrade slot restrictions for free players.

    This way free people could still be making progress, even if they are unable to make the most of their rewards unless they became premium.

    Yes please.

  46. If items are going to be put on a expire date, then APB:R is a nogo for me.

  47. I hope all will go good. I just don't want to think about bad. Old APB was perfect for me. I lived with APB its like second life for me. Just please don't break our hopes. We need good game with max playable staff no any exp date. If we buying Premium I want full staff with everything no expiration dates. Think about it. I understand that its all for money making, but do easy way for us. Lots of ppl want that there will not be any exp date at least for weapons!!. Because weapons are taking first place in game action.

  48. You could also entertain a level cap system for F2P players, since the game is largely based on skill, the people who reach the free level cap will still have a fighting chance - but unable to acquire/equip the top tier items available in the game.

  49. From what I'm reading people can make things and then sell them online kind of like second life? Why don't they just let people make money off of what they make and take a portion of that money for themselves?

    If I make a shirt or gun, I can sell it for say $5 and i keep 4 and GamersFirst keeps a buck. The more I sell the more I make and the more they make. Make it so everyone can create whatever they want and if people want to pay monthly for more perks (like maybe you can only sell 2-3 new items a month for free and unlimited if you pay...they can also charge less per month).

    In the day people were making bucks with second life (it just got boring and dated after a while). If this can be captured in APB and keep prices low for subscribers and people can make money if they create, I think everyone can be happy.

  50. I don't want to make money from APB;R (from game play). I just want to play my old APB with full staff. I'm ready to pay for premium and for full allowed items no exp dates. At least for weapons...
    let creators make money for there monthly pay, for work (hard work!) they doing. I know how hard to work in company where servers are working online 24/7 hours and its vary hard.

  51. for some reason the origianl post disappeared so I am reposting

    WAIT NO! Don't you dare put a price on my creations. That's why I enjoyed this game because of the work I put into my creations

    and the money from them. Yes some where less complicated then others, but I spent countless hours tweeking them to look

    perfect. That's why I charged more for my creations cause they looked good, not neccesarily more layers. I mean yes I will

    still pay to play, trust me I hate F2P and didn't mind paying for the original APB.

    Ask around I was getting a great name as a designer cause of my customizations (which btw please let me have them back, oh and

    Ange1ofD4rkness - Zombie, the guy who was trying to sell that 98 layer redbull). That red bull logo is an example, it was 98

    layers and over 8 hrs of work. So I charged alot for it and people who wanted it payed. But if you seriously put a preset price

    I will be furious (that's how I made my money)
    I mean here check this link, these are some of my symbols I made (not including the cars I designed never got around to

    uploading those)

    My Creations = AMAZING

    Look at them do you think it's fair to set a preset price limit on these, also I could just throw in a bunch of transparent

    layers to increase the complexity of an item.

    So please for the sake of this loyal fan who never gave up on the title (I considered this one of my favorite games of all

    times and I have been gaming for over 15 years), do not put preset prices on creations and please (even if I have to pay) give

    me my account and creations back.

    Thanks for taking the time to read this hope you take what I said to thought

  52. well trying to leave a comment keeps removing it, what gives? I want to give my opinion and can't

  53. I left a longer comment but it has disappeared. So I will only say this instead:

    I had 4-5 characters, one over R308 and others not too far behind. I pumped a hell of a lot of time into customisation, created a 64 bar length song using the music editor (can we have more bars, please?) and pumped tons of game time into unlocking almost everything.

    But I do NOT want my old data back.

    I want to start again. I want the game to be a 100% fresh release, where EVERYONE is on a level playing field to start.

    I don't mind putting those hours in again. If customisation data can be retained then fine, as it has no impact on game play. But please, please do NOT allow us to have our old characters back in full - the consequences of such a decision could be a disaster.

    And this should be a new experience for everyone, not just new players to the game.

  54. For some reason I am unable to post on the forums at the G1 website...but here's an idea I had to help balance matchmaking.
    Why not have instaces of the action zones based on rating? That way, the only people in that zone would be players of a similar skill level. You could only enter zones for your rating level, but when the zone filled up, it would spawn another one for that level...just like before. Break it down simply, have a 1-100R zone for the newer players, a 101-200R zone, and a 300+R zone for both Waterfront and Financial.
    Other games do this with thier zones...even the games that aren't instanced like APB. You could concentrate players of similar skill in each of these instances to be matched against each other.
    Just my 2 cents...

  55. WAIT NO! Don't you dare put a price on my creations. That's why I enjoyed this game because of the work I put into my creations and the money from them. Yes some where less complicated then others, but I spent countless hours tweeking them to look perfect. That's why I charged more for my creations cause they looked good, not neccesarily more layers. I mean yes I will still pay to play, trust me I hate F2P and didn't mind paying for the original APB.

    Ask around I was getting a great name as a designer cause of my customizations (which btw please let me have them back, oh and Ange1ofD4rkness - Zombie, the guy who was trying to sell that 98 layer redbull). That red bull logo is an example, it was 98 layers and over 8 hrs of work. So I charged alot for it and people who wanted it payed. But if you seriously put a preset price I will be furious (that's how I made my money)
    I mean here check this link, these are some of my symbols I made (not including the cars I designed never got around to uploading those)

    Look at them do you think it's fair to set a preset price limit on these, also I could just throw in a bunch of transparent layers to increase the complexity of an item.

    So please for the sake of this loyal fan who never gave up on the title (I considered this one of my favorite games of all times and I have been gaming for over 15 years), do not put preset prices on creations and please (even if I have to pay) give me my account and creations back.

    Thanks for taking the time to read this hope you take what I said to thought

  56. RE Wood92:

    It's not practical to have instances based on Rating. Plus, you have to realise that this is a progressive shooter, so the point is to progress. If you only ever play against opponents who are your rating then have you progressed? No, you have not. You've only progressed when you can use your additional upgrades against those who haven't got them, or against those who are higher rating than you (the more you progress, the easier those higher opponents become).

    If you force everyone to play only those of a similar rating to you, progression means nothing.

    However, the threat system in APB original was horrible - it meant nothing and was exploitable. So it must be done away with in favour of a more elegant system based on rating.

    Rating is the only measurement of progress, if a loose one at that. But it can be broken into bands easily enough, based upon the weaponry and upgrades available at certain bands (100, 120, 150, 250).

    Using these bands, you can apply a simple game play balance based upon the highest rating in a team. If your team's rating is 1 band below your opponents, you get a slightly shorter re-spawn timer. If 2 bands below, a shorter-still re-spawn timer and additional rewards for winning. 3-4 bands below, a drastically reduced re-spawn timer and vastly greater rewards for winning.

    The same is applied, in reverse, for those of a higher rating.

    Rewards are cash and faction.

    Suddenly, the skilled lower rated players get rewarded heavily for facing off against much higher rated players. The much higher rated players still have a good chance of winning by default, but they get less rewards, so will likely prefer to face higher rated teams.

    With tweaking, it would be a much better system than forcing people to play certain ratings (which would grind the match maker to a halt on the best days) and laughs in the face of the horrible threat system.

  57. Interesting read. I'll just say this:

    I think you should allow the creation of small clans freely. Small groups of friends love to get together on a weekend nights to have a blast and feel they're part of their own group inside. Small clans always felt more personal and friendlier, don't take that away.

    Don't limit the customization too much. It's on othe three pillars (customization, combat and... forgot what the last c was for) of the game. Personally, I wouldn't limit it at all and look for other means of being more cost-efficient (exclusive game-types or maps in adition to the exclussive weapons and cars) but you're the one handling all the decissions, not me.

  58. OMG!
    Orkut Community

  59. Hi and thanks for reviving APB ( best game ever :p)

    Everything you do now is great, but what about online mode? how will it be? Is there going to be a new mode or new kinds of missons? (dont forget cars chase city)

    Start a new character, no problem, it's a new game.

  60. Are you going to take a second out of your precious life to answer me BJORN or am I going to have to get real on you.

    I have the power to run a clan in every server you put up that will bring the game down or make it thrive. Don't make me do the prior because what fun is a game where the strongest clan is out to ruin the fun.

  61. RE: danny

    That does sound like a better solution, rewarding people more for facing groups higher rated than them is great.
    The game as it was before seemed to thrive on griefing, I mean...why take on players far below your play level other than to grief? If you build a system of incentives to play against players of your level or slightly higher, then the problem would be lessened. Those wildly outmatched missions would be more rare, because people would be looking to get matched up against peers or higher to get better rewards.
    As far as progression goes, other games don't have pvp with newbie groups going against end-game groups...they divide them up into level tiers. Why would this stop progression? You progress to the next pvp tier to take on more challenging opponents...right?
    New players are the lifeblood of any MMO, I just don't want to see griefing take away any new players this new FTP model may attract. Then the game will find itself in the same situation it was in before.

  62. This comment has been removed by the author.



  65. I hope this isn't using warrocks method of "accounts" which just means a few basic perks with a small discount off the store which just means you're paying a subscription IN ADDITION TO store purchases.

  66. War Rock is bullshit. n War Rock u have to pay for everything starting with guns and with upgrades. If APB:R go that way I quit!

  67. Hi,

    I never had a doubt that someone wise enough would come and rescue APB. It has a great potential. Thanks guys for taking this game in your custody! =)

    Now, personally I really do trust that you will do your best to make this game both profitable and playable, as much as possible.

    But what really concerns me (as well as hundreds of others like few above), is that are you gonna give us the possibility to get our old characters back...

    I do understand that just giving them back to us 100% is not good decision. But there are many ways to accomplish satisfying results:

    1) You need money? Hell, I would actually PAY for getting my old chars back. Not too much, but still. So you could give the old players the opportunity to just buy their old chars back. You could even put a package price to complete char and/or micro-prices for pieces of that char, like costumes, guns, vehicles etc.

    2) Worried about balance? You could make all the guns and vehicles and stuff to be unlockables. When to unlock them; up to you. Someone up there suggested the Rating as the key - that's valid.

    3) Above all, characters' avatars should be possible to recover... We can always grind those 3-slotted thingies back as they were, but making the character to look exactly like it was... It's next to impossible. So please, at least, make it possible to recover the looks of our precious little characters...

    There's my two cents. Looking forward to hear more about your thoughts about the game's revival! =)

  68. Re Wood92:

    Thanks for your reply :)

    About progression... I play CrimeCraft currently and the PVP progression in that game is a bit strange. As you progress and get more powerful, so does everyone around you (if you play in even games). If you play against weaker opponents you receive a harsh penalty.

    The only time you actually feel progression is in the tournaments, which are (as you said) split into 3 distinct tiers. Once you jump up into the next tier, you're very, very weak. But as you hit the end of that tier, you're very powerful.

    It works OK, I guess. But certain tiers don't have many people willing to bother playing, because they know they'll end up facing rank locked teams who stay at the peak of that tier.

    I prefer a more fluid system that lets everyone play against everyone (within reason... if match making can avoid pitting R20s against R300s, it should do).

    It's not an easy system to manage, really. But the threat system simply MUST GO. It's horrible and I hated it with a passion.

  69. Oh and I think there should be a better newbie district, in which sub R50 players can enjoy PVP against only players of their rank.

    And then, for the high end gamers, there should be a clan wars district in which all 250+ players can enjoy high end battles, such as turf war and so on.

    And besides that, I only want an open PVP district (the chaotic district that never was), where criminals and enforcers can fight at any time.

  70. For those who purchase the game and never got any refunds. Do we get a little premium points or whatever to us?

  71. hello. i'm a huge fan of apb since i heard of it but i was to late Q.Q

    especially becasue i'm a fan of games with lots of costumizations. and shooters.
    but i have a few questions about if it will be a lil like a fps game to so like first person view and stuff because i would like that more then view from behind the guy like most of the mmo games. and just so u guys know. i would love to help with beta testing

  72. Hi, I am looking forward to the APB experience being reinstated but one question i have which im sure must be floating around is that people and myself who originally bought the game (and game time) must be wanting to know if firstly their accounts are going to be retrievable but also what is happening to all that purchased game time that wasn't used? I attempted to try and get some sort of compensation from EA who said that it wasn't their problem even thought their logo was splattered on the intro and Steam where i purchased the game from also said they were not willing to do anything. I felt at a bit of a loss and let down by such large companies who didn't really seem to have any customer care or will to help out. I look forward to your feedback on this.

    Regards Dan.


  74. This comment has been removed by the author.

  75. I once panned.

    I find the graphics and the vehicles should be improved!
    So as such should be GTA IV or Test Drive Unlimited have effect two flagship.
    the one that may not be able to implement very clear to me.
    but since they can see some things off!
    (What quality, etc. As for graphics)

    Car tuning for all users, and more opportunities would also provide more variety.

    I would give the game a bit more RPG feeling anyway.
    (More interactions with each other,
    walk-in shops and banks,
    Houses where one can live as a user and invite friends can meet, housing design).

    That would be really great!

    Otherwise, the game was great, I was 6 months of Beta testing and we have written a lot of Real Time Worlds, some good community staff bidders are very important to keep in touch with the community, otherwise nothing!

    I stopped was introduced as the payment model, it was too expensive and you also had something else to get ahead verprochen.
    it should be free for all and items, extras, etc. should raise costs.

    This plan is supposed to now gamers first.

    I'm excited!


    (translated from German)

  76. I think you should make something special for the premium to show they still got some difference, maybe option to buy a motercycle. Eaither way so far it all seems good, but hope you make some cosmetic to be abel to help. Like the bulletproof vest is just cosmetics now. Also would like to see more weapon choices as of maybe molotovs for the criminals and flashbangs for the enforcers. Also few new weapon woulden't be to bad, else we all just gonna run around with n-tec, snipers all over again. Maybe some form of close combat option like hand to hand or knife to sneak up on those less aware. Anyways really hope to see this great game back on is feets anytime soon.

    Keep the good work up!

  77. I think the complexity cap is a great idea to not rob the customization system RTW worked so hard to make! The fact that there wont be no "item shop" where someone could go buy "premium only" items to blast newbies with. That sorta thing happened to combat arms first it was very humble like oh no NX wont interfere and now look >.> then again combat arms is crap and apb is far from that. So far no objections but how goes are old accounts (mainly designs, character names) Good luck with the work looking forward to test.

  78. That is good idea, which definitely works - Pay for full customization.

    However, definition of this method is not clear. It is very important to create as many expensive things to buy, as well as small things to buy. Little people will pay to get big clans, and they will be willing to pay a lot, The most users will be willing invest up to 5 dollars, which could be used for to buy a car slot, or to buy some in-game cash etc. The more cheap things there is to buy the more money you will generate. Think about it carefully.

    Everyone say this game will be free. Free to play? or free to get?
    If its free to play and free to download, why don't you charge for download.

    Keep in mind how many players are expected to play it, and how many of them would be willing to pay. To sum it all up, how much are they willing to spend. If 60% of players spends 5 dollars, you will generate more than 500 players paying 20 dollars.

    However, you can not put all your costs on users.

    Get some deals with advertising companies. I am really possitive that Honda would be more than happy to support you, and let you use Honda sign on the cars which can be well customized.

    Michelin, GoodYear, they would be happy to support your game if you could choose name of the tires in the game.

    This game with customization will attract a lot of people and is good way of advertising. Create an advert board in game - Billboard in streets with real adverts..

    So if i were you i would collect strongest points of the game, and reason them to outside companies why should they support your game. This is how Need for speed or similar games got their cash.

    Keep it up peeps.


  80. In Soviet Russia one week consist of seven days, TechMech ;D

  81. just want to apologize for the double posts, I was having connection issues I later learned

  82. I don't mind paying premium I think... Just don't take it off.

    I love the power of customization, it represent you as who you are, desire or your flavor in taste. That car over there says it's yours, put your music out loud, block streets, run with it and so on.

    You share and show off your design and art.

    I mean come on, in the district I'm sure you have seen something to make you laugh or how badass avatar of that one is.

    To see Captain America running around as a crime?! I lol'ed... it seriously make someone's day.
    Or even this once, your running around and found a road block with about 5 NijaTurtles, you fail mission but whatever it was worth it.


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